Some friends and I did some studying on faith vs. works. Someone we know is struggling with what the Bible literally says about what it takes to become a true follow of Jesus. He struggles with our salvation being dependent on obedience, baptism and other traditional practices of the church being I will not post the original email with the questions and references. It is a little long, but I encourage everyone to read the last few numbers and at least skim through all of them. I tried to paste his references and comments in blue, when I answered so it would be understood better. That being said, here are some of the thoughts I had and hopefully it gives others some things to promote thought.
1. All scripture is God-breathed and inerrant. We do not need to add to it or take away. We will all die and fade away, but the Word of the Lord stands forever (1 Peter 1:22-25). It is hard discussing scripture against scripture as he did, and it can become a slippery slope of our own pride in knowledge become so the goal, not living the truth.
2. Faith vs. Belief- James 2:17 - "Thus too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead." James 2:19 - "Even devils believe".
Are the devils saved? Doing a simple Strong's concordance search to find the original Greek and Hebrew definitions of these words, you find that they are frequently used interchangeably. The purpose is exactly this issue...cutting through the different between just believing that there is a God and believing that He died for my sins and I need Him. Now, James is not saying here that justification is by works. James is actually saying that if a person has faith in Christ Jesus, as he or she says, then that person will be faithful though works by their (new) nature -- because Christ dwells within them and is thus the vine that produces their good fruit -- do good works. It is a cause and effect, not an effect and cause. He also quoted James 2:24 -- Man is justified by works, not by faith only.
"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." Justification and salvation are not normally translated into the same meaning, when you understand the actual process of salvation...which I elude to in number 5. Salvation frees you from prison, justification is proving or declaring that freedom you have been given afterwards.
3. Context- literal and precise. If Jesus came into my office and preached to me the gospel, and came into your office and preached to you the Gospel, the gospel would not change, but the way-of presentation and His methodology probably would. Matt quoted John 3:16, but read the whole chapter. Nicodemus asks that very question of salvation and Jesus says "we must be born again...born of water and spirit." Also, for the stance of Paul, Matt state's No Verse Says We Are Saved By Faith Alone, yet Paul in Ephesians 2:8 says"
1. All scripture is God-breathed and inerrant. We do not need to add to it or take away. We will all die and fade away, but the Word of the Lord stands forever (1 Peter 1:22-25). It is hard discussing scripture against scripture as he did, and it can become a slippery slope of our own pride in knowledge become so the goal, not living the truth.
2. Faith vs. Belief- James 2:17 - "Thus too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead." James 2:19 - "Even devils believe".
Are the devils saved? Doing a simple Strong's concordance search to find the original Greek and Hebrew definitions of these words, you find that they are frequently used interchangeably. The purpose is exactly this issue...cutting through the different between just believing that there is a God and believing that He died for my sins and I need Him. Now, James is not saying here that justification is by works. James is actually saying that if a person has faith in Christ Jesus, as he or she says, then that person will be faithful though works by their (new) nature -- because Christ dwells within them and is thus the vine that produces their good fruit -- do good works. It is a cause and effect, not an effect and cause. He also quoted James 2:24 -- Man is justified by works, not by faith only.
"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." Justification and salvation are not normally translated into the same meaning, when you understand the actual process of salvation...which I elude to in number 5. Salvation frees you from prison, justification is proving or declaring that freedom you have been given afterwards.
3. Context- literal and precise. If Jesus came into my office and preached to me the gospel, and came into your office and preached to you the Gospel, the gospel would not change, but the way-of presentation and His methodology probably would. Matt quoted John 3:16, but read the whole chapter. Nicodemus asks that very question of salvation and Jesus says "we must be born again...born of water and spirit." Also, for the stance of Paul, Matt state's No Verse Says We Are Saved By Faith Alone, yet Paul in Ephesians 2:8 says"
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast."
Literally and truthfully, the saving process is completed by the grace given from God, then our faith in it's ability to do so, to be technical. Say it slowly and think about what you are saying BY-GRACE, THROUGH-FAITH. Substitute words and check this out; For it is by a doctor's surgery you have been saved, through you going to his office. Just myslef going to his office is not what saved me, because I can sit in his waiting room for hours, or even months after the new health care plan (...I had to slide that in there), but the doctor is the one actually performing the saving action. Also you can chew on is Romans 3:20-26, I really like it.
20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
4. Life Application- Our COO here at Pine Cove has a sign beside his desk where only he can read that says, "If you don't live it, then you don't believe it." I love it. This is why getting married rocked my heart for Christ, because I related to Jesus in a new way in his sacrifice as a husband and the "groom". Putting a ring on my finger technically made me a husband by Webster's standards, but if I never acted like it after our ceremony, would I truly hold the title as what a husband is? If I never fulfilled my vows and covenant, am I truly the definition of a husband; can I hold that title? You would be bound by covenant, but you never acted like it, the correct title would be a fool or a “you know what”. That is why I lean towards not losing salvation, but a “you never had it in the first place belief”...however I need more study on that as well to solidify my stance. Once you become infected with Christ, you want to read, be baptized, and be obedient; not solely because it is commanded of us and we have to do it. God's love, that is freely given, is worth more than we can afford; even with our own efforts of faith. We cannot purchase it
5. Things to respond with that he did not mention- You can get into a little bit of study and quite deep study with him, do some research on soteriology- the study of salvation. Several times, in the New Testament even, the word salvation is present progressive...are being saved. The process of salvation scares most people, and definitely most traditional denominations. The process started when Jesus died for our sins 2,000 years ago, I realized it when I was 18. I am covered by faith through His blood, remember Romans 3:20-26, verse 25 specifically, and I will be saved from damnation after I die, at the judgment seat. Questions- Thief on the cross? Not baptized and was in paradise that day. Why did Jesus ask John to baptize Him? Did Jesus need salvation, if baptism is what saves you? Salvation is being redeemed from your sin, so was Jesus sinful, therefore needing baptism, i.e. salvation? No. You do not need baptism. Matthew 3:15
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"
15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.
At this point both Jesus and John had several followers, even the Sadducees. It is a pursuit of righteousness and public profession, not a requirement. It was confirmed by the dove and God’s blessing being bestowed on Jesus.Another problem is English and the translating from original languages...we were doomed to be confused and possessing poor knowledgeable...but was that predetermined for us??? Just kidding. Wrong topic of discussion to bring up! Man I hope that helps. This was really challenging for me, in more ways than one. It pricked my heart for the things of God and being prepared for an answer at all times while also being patient for the Lord to speak into me. The number 5 just hit me today about Jesus' baptism.
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